(14:13:28) *CENSORED*: and I know, I’m messed up *smiles slightly*
(14:15:10) *CENSORED*: maybe
(14:15:13) *CENSORED*: maybe I’ll become a nun
(14:15:32) *CENSORED*: *sighs* just say to hell with this, I’m gonna be on my own, no nothing.
(14:16:36) UncouthRanting: Why do you need to be a nun to do that?
(14:17:27) *CENSORED*: *shrugs* more of a reason to stay away from guys for anything but friendship?
(14:17:36) *CENSORED*: eh, non physical friendship
(14:18:02) UncouthRanting: How about– more of a reason to just have human relations, and not break it into categories, and titles, and genders.
(14:18:46) *CENSORED*: I’m trying to have human relations and I’m messing it up badly. I can’t just be me. *shrugs* Me isn’t good.
(14:19:32) *CENSORED*: eh
(14:19:33) *CENSORED*: *shrugs*
(14:19:42) UncouthRanting: I really have nothing to say that,.
(14:19:45) UncouthRanting: to say that.
(14:20:12) *CENSORED*: Erg, Isaac!
(14:23:22) *CENSORED*: eh
(14:23:24) *CENSORED*: it’ll come to me
(14:23:26) *CENSORED*: always does
(14:23:30) *CENSORED*: *shrugs*
(14:24:03) UncouthRanting: I agree–but not because you are not good.
(14:24:13) *CENSORED*: eh
(14:24:23) *CENSORED*: I was being overly melodramatic there
(14:24:30) UncouthRanting: It was still said.
(14:24:34) UncouthRanting: And it still means something.
(14:24:39) *CENSORED*: :-\
(14:24:47) *CENSORED*: it means I’m tired of messing things up
(14:24:58) UncouthRanting: Then say that.
(14:25:12) UncouthRanting: Do not belittle or repress yourself–that is the cheap and easy way out.
(14:25:29) *CENSORED*: sorry. I usually try not to.
(14:25:36) *CENSORED*: lol, I also try not to spout
(14:25:40) UncouthRanting: I mean, I understand what you are trying tos ay.. but I can’t sympathize with it if it’s not true.
(14:25:49) *CENSORED*: *nods*
(14:26:09) UncouthRanting: *CENSORED*, we need to vent. As people, we NEED it. We get in these cyclic patterns in our head and we can’t sort it out until we TALK about it.
(14:26:30) *CENSORED*: I don’t need sympathy *shrugs* I don’t need understanding either, though that’s nice. I need someone who just listens and can put me in my place at times
(14:26:32) *CENSORED*: heh
(14:26:44) UncouthRanting: I know I’m a bit harsh sometimes, but that is because I think you’ve got the ability to be one of the greatest people I’ve ever known.. And I want to push for that.
(14:27:26) *CENSORED*: hush, I need harsh! Too many people aren’t… leaves you empty sometimes
(14:27:42) *CENSORED*: well
(14:27:43) *CENSORED*: not need
(14:27:46) *CENSORED*: *thinks*
(14:27:56) UncouthRanting: :}
(14:27:59) *CENSORED*: strongly desire
(14:28:02) *CENSORED*: %)
(14:28:18) UncouthRanting: No, you need real.
(14:28:31) UncouthRanting: Harsh is just hurtful and pointless. I used the wrong terminology, I think.
(14:29:15) *CENSORED*: is it? Harsh can kick you back into realistic *smiles slightly* like a slap on the face when you’re panicing
(14:29:17) *CENSORED*: real…
(14:29:27) *CENSORED*: that’s what I’m trying to figure out
(14:29:28) *CENSORED*: what is
(14:29:35) *CENSORED*: or isn’t
(14:29:36) *CENSORED*: either or
(14:29:39) *CENSORED*: I’m not picky
(14:29:44) *CENSORED*: *smiles slightly*
(14:29:47) UncouthRanting: :}
(14:29:58) UncouthRanting: Then start by being as honest as you can, even with yourself.
(14:30:07) UncouthRanting: And that includes not saying things like “I’m no good.”
(14:30:26) *CENSORED*: *nods*
(14:30:56) *CENSORED*: honesty is hard though- especially when you’re used to lies or only partial honesty.
(14:31:18) UncouthRanting: No, honesty is NOT hard.
(14:31:22) *CENSORED*: eh, I kinda know that
(14:31:27) *CENSORED*: no, the after effects can be
(14:31:29) UncouthRanting: You’re right, it may seem rough in comparison, but it is not hard.
(14:31:43) UncouthRanting: No, again, it may only seem rough. But it is how you let it affect you.
(14:32:10) *CENSORED*: other people affect me
(14:32:46) UncouthRanting: That’s an untrue statement:
(14:32:53) UncouthRanting: You let other people affect you in a negative manner.
(14:32:57) *CENSORED*: *blinks*
(14:32:59) *CENSORED*: or positive
(14:33:04) *CENSORED*: just usually negative
(14:33:44) UncouthRanting: You make that choice :}
(14:33:54) UncouthRanting: Which is why I worded it as I did.
(14:34:25) *CENSORED*: heh
(14:34:38) *CENSORED*: I don’t see how I can change that
(14:34:57) UncouthRanting: This may sound a bit Zennish.. or maybe Taoist of me..
(14:35:03) UncouthRanting: But, it’s because you’re trying to see.
(14:35:10) UncouthRanting: You’re trying.
(14:35:13) *CENSORED*: :-\
(14:35:15) UncouthRanting: Instead of doing.
(14:35:28) *CENSORED*: AhHa!
(14:35:33) UncouthRanting: Let me ask you this:
(14:35:33) *CENSORED*: *smirks*
(14:35:40) *CENSORED*: I knew I’d catch you sometime
(14:35:41) *CENSORED*: k…
(14:35:44) UncouthRanting: Tell me your reaction to this statement.
(14:35:46) UncouthRanting: Catch me what?
(14:36:25) *CENSORED*: lol, you said a while back that it was the trying that counts… when you said I should watch One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest
(14:36:29) *CENSORED*: statement?
(14:37:16) UncouthRanting: That was a different definition (I hate english sometimes).. that trying was in actually making an attempt.
(14:37:18) UncouthRanting: Anyways.
(14:37:35) UncouthRanting: *CENSORED*, you are being a silly and stupid little girl.
(14:38:28) *CENSORED*: heh
(14:39:16) UncouthRanting: Well?
(14:40:23) *CENSORED*: mixture. First, a sarcastic thanks. Then, rather hurt. Then, yeah I am. Then, aw what the hell, I’m learning.
(14:40:54) UncouthRanting: Okay.
(14:40:57) UncouthRanting: Let’s look at that.
(14:41:08) UncouthRanting: You first reaction is sarcasm– why
(14:41:09) UncouthRanting: ?
(14:41:35) *CENSORED*: well, and behind it all, I’m glad that was just a statement.. hopefully not too meant.
(14:41:36) *CENSORED*: um
(14:41:52) *CENSORED*: because I don’t take stuff like that seriously at first, defense mechanism not to break down.
(14:42:07) UncouthRanting: Okay–so you don’t WANT to take it serious. But..
(14:42:10) UncouthRanting: Then you do.
(14:42:15) UncouthRanting: Because you go to hurt–why?
(14:43:00) *CENSORED*: because there must be a reason you said that, and I’m scared I might have really missed something
(14:43:27) UncouthRanting: What might you have missed?
(14:43:45) *CENSORED*: eh, something in our friendship. worry that I did something to offend you.
(14:43:59) UncouthRanting: Why would it matter if you offended me?
(14:44:47) *CENSORED*: *blinks* because I care about you and I care for how you feel about me
(14:45:07) UncouthRanting: Why do you care for how I feel about you?
(14:45:49) *CENSORED*: because I respect your opinion, it’s usually quite good.
(14:46:41) *CENSORED*: erm, fair
(14:47:01) UncouthRanting: Okay. So, you respect my opinion, which you think is generally pretty good or fair. And if I say something like “You are a silly and stupid little girl”, I might be right?
(14:47:46) *CENSORED*: yeah
(14:47:52) *CENSORED*: pretty much
(14:48:06) UncouthRanting: So what if I said to you: *CENSORED*, you are male.
(14:48:44) *CENSORED*: *blinks* sarcasm, laugh, then blink and ask why you say that and I don’t think I am…
(14:49:45) UncouthRanting: Why the different reaction? Isn’t my opinion generally good or fair? Something that might affect how you feel and if you are hut or not?
(14:49:48) UncouthRanting: hurt
(14:50:28) *CENSORED*: eh, because it’s so off the wall and doesn’t compute with anything I’ve thought of myself
(14:50:36) UncouthRanting: Ah, we’re getting close to something
(14:50:42) *CENSORED*: yeah
(14:50:43) UncouthRanting: Because you don’t believe it is true
(14:51:21) *CENSORED*: …
(14:52:10) UncouthRanting: Now, if we go back to our original example: If you didn’t believe that was true, would it not stand to reason the you would probably just laugh off my attempt to say something like that.
(14:52:32) *CENSORED*: yeah *sighs*
(14:53:34) UncouthRanting: However, since you are not firm in that belief.. and because you haven chosen to believe my opinion, you are genuinely hurt by it (moreover, you would probably choose to believe it) .. even in a scenario like this, where I am not stating it as my opinion (I will never be able to convince you I do not believe that until you do!), you are still anxious and perhaps upset about it.
(14:54:27) *CENSORED*: *blinks* I believe you, because I know it’s to prove this to me
(14:55:49) UncouthRanting: And if I can’t convince you of it, even though I believe with all my self it is not true, because you are not convinced of it, should we not focus on what I think, but on what you think: Moreover, should you not focus on having these relationships that do not seem to work for the very same reasons and instead focus on figuring out yourself and what you believe and let your human relations be what they can be, instead of trying to make them something they are not?
(14:57:15) *CENSORED*: :-\ gotta be on my own for that
(14:57:23) UncouthRanting: Hmm?
(14:58:34) *CENSORED*: to figure myself out
(14:58:42) *CENSORED*: I’ve got to be by myself
(14:58:46) *CENSORED*: other people can help
(14:58:52) UncouthRanting: Absolutely. That is why I said “you”
(14:58:56) *CENSORED*: but I have to make the actual trip alone.
(14:58:57) *CENSORED*: heh
(14:59:03) *CENSORED*: I’m scared of being alone
(14:59:11) UncouthRanting: Yes. It’s a hard thing to accept sometimes, but it is how we do it.
(14:59:14) UncouthRanting: But.. see.
(14:59:15) UncouthRanting: No..
(14:59:17) UncouthRanting: It’s not alone.
(14:59:24) UncouthRanting: It is within yourself.
(14:59:29) UncouthRanting: That’s a big difference.
(14:59:49) UncouthRanting: And it’s not like a long, desolate journey.
(14:59:51) UncouthRanting: LIFE is that journey.
(14:59:56) UncouthRanting: And we learn it a bit at a time.
(15:00:03) *CENSORED*: I almost died last time.
(15:00:08) UncouthRanting: As long as we are striving last time?
(15:00:11) UncouthRanting: er -?
(15:00:14) UncouthRanting: How is that?
(15:00:54) *CENSORED*: Last time I was alone I hated myself and decided to end that hatred *shrugs* But because it was me I ended up killing myself.
(15:00:58) *CENSORED*: and even though I’m changed
(15:01:06) *CENSORED*: I’m still scared to death that it’s in me somewhere
(15:01:19) UncouthRanting: But.. see..
(15:01:23) UncouthRanting: You’re missing that.
(15:01:25) UncouthRanting: Important.
(15:01:28) UncouthRanting: Detail.
(15:01:42) UncouthRanting: You’re NOT alone. The trip IS by yourself. But you are NOT alone.
(15:01:48) *CENSORED*: *sighs deeply*
(15:01:55) UncouthRanting: For example”:
(15:02:00) UncouthRanting: It’s 3 am.
(15:02:07) UncouthRanting: You’re sitting and thinking.
(15:02:09) UncouthRanting: And despairing.
(15:02:12) UncouthRanting: It all seems crazy.
(15:02:15) UncouthRanting: You don’t know what to do.
(15:02:20) UncouthRanting: You pick up the phone.
(15:02:25) UncouthRanting: And you call me.
(15:02:28) UncouthRanting: And you vent it all out.
(15:02:33) UncouthRanting: And we talk.
(15:02:39) *CENSORED*: heh
(15:02:39) UncouthRanting: And then… you hang up.
(15:02:58) UncouthRanting: And it’s different. You feel better. You may not continue that night. But, you made progress.
(15:03:08) UncouthRanting: To be alone–you have to choose to be alone.
(15:03:18) UncouthRanting: I know, I’m really bad about it.
(15:03:21) *CENSORED*: aw, shucks Isaac, I’m not gonna call you at night. I wouldn’t want to bug anyone
(15:03:24) *CENSORED*: *pokes* yes you are
(15:03:25) *CENSORED*: %)
(15:03:32) UncouthRanting: *CENSORED*.
(15:03:40) UncouthRanting: What did I just say about choosing to be alone?
(15:03:50) UncouthRanting: How well do you think you know me?
(15:04:48) UncouthRanting: ?
(15:04:56) *CENSORED*: Um, I know you as well as you let me, I hope. And I choose to be alone at that time because it’s late at night!
(15:05:16) UncouthRanting: Do you think I make frivolous offers?
(15:05:30) *CENSORED*: no
(15:06:00) UncouthRanting: Do you think I am the type of person who, would, if you called late at night and I didn’t want to talk.. would talk anyone and feel bad and stupid the entire time>
(15:06:18) *CENSORED*: no
(15:06:45) UncouthRanting: Then you’ve chosen to be alone and you have to understand and accept the accountability for that decision.
(15:07:21) UncouthRanting: (And, to understand that probably, you need to understand that you REALLY have an option that you are choosing not to use. And to understand THAT you need to understand WHY.)
(15:07:26) UncouthRanting: Okay :}
(15:08:47) UncouthRanting: er properly
(15:08:51) UncouthRanting: not probably
(15:13:15) *CENSORED*: back
(15:13:30) *CENSORED*: *hugs* I guessed
(15:14:01) UncouthRanting: Hmm?
(15:14:36) *CENSORED*: on the word
(15:14:38) *CENSORED*: %)
(15:14:43) *CENSORED*: why…
(15:14:49) UncouthRanting: YEs.
(15:14:51) UncouthRanting: er, yes.
(15:14:53) UncouthRanting: Why.
(15:14:55) *CENSORED*: I feel cheap if I get help?
(15:15:06) UncouthRanting: How is it help?
(15:15:17) *CENSORED*: *shrugs* talking
(15:15:20) *CENSORED*: I’m not making sense
(15:15:27) UncouthRanting: Keep going with it.
(15:16:12) *CENSORED*: talking out problems helps… but even I as fear being alone I feel like I have to, prove to myself that I’m just being paranoid
(15:17:47) UncouthRanting: Hmm.
(15:18:12) UncouthRanting: So, one of your beliefs is you are not strong unless you do it yourself?
(15:18:38) *CENSORED*: I guess. I know it doesn’t mean much, but still.
(15:18:43) UncouthRanting: Nono.
(15:18:49) UncouthRanting: If it is your belief, it means a lot.
(15:19:04) *CENSORED*: *nods*
(15:19:08) UncouthRanting: Because it is a belief that goes against how we, as people, attain self worth and communicate.
(15:19:56) UncouthRanting: You have a need to prove yourself:
(15:20:06) UncouthRanting: Except that calling someone to vent does not constitute a break in that,.
(15:20:16) UncouthRanting: Because YOU are still the one who does it, as you, yourself, have already said.
(15:20:31) *CENSORED*: *frowns* something does seem right
(15:20:36) *CENSORED*: but I can’t find a loose end
(15:21:12) UncouthRanting: It doesn’t seem right because your belief is it is you or you–nothing else :}
(15:21:51) *CENSORED*: *laughs softly* doesn’t sound too healthy
(15:22:26) UncouthRanting: Why not?
(15:22:53) *CENSORED*: ’cause other people are nice to have around… and call at three in the morning
(15:24:10) UncouthRanting: :}~
(15:24:14) UncouthRanting: So, what do you want?
(15:24:35) UncouthRanting: Do you want to prove you can do it all yourself? Or do you want to actually DO it all yourself, and have people around to be friends?
(15:25:08) *CENSORED*: both
(15:25:27) UncouthRanting: Let me try a dfiferent perspective.
(15:26:02) *CENSORED*: k
(15:26:06) UncouthRanting: Do you want to prove you can do it all yourself (in essence failing and being miserable)? Or do you want to actually do it all yourself (in essence using the resources and people in your life to aid you and vice versa)?
(15:27:10) *CENSORED*: no more Mr. Nice Guy, hmm? *smiles a tiny bit*
(15:27:14) *CENSORED*: I don’t want to be miserable
(15:27:17) *CENSORED*: so the second
(15:27:37) UncouthRanting: Don’t just say it–in fact, don’t give me answer until you really believe one or the other.
(15:28:04) *CENSORED*: that could be a while
(15:28:10) *CENSORED*: I’m still figuring out what I believe
(15:28:31) UncouthRanting: I’ve got time :}
(15:28:36) UncouthRanting: And so should you.
(15:29:03) *CENSORED*: time? Time is weird
(15:29:26) UncouthRanting: Time is what you make of it.
(15:29:50) *CENSORED*: blah, time is slow and fast and rarely runs right
(15:30:06) *CENSORED*: which makes scheduling a toughie!
(15:30:32) UncouthRanting: Time is what you make of it.
(15:30:41) UncouthRanting: If you let the world control you, of course it’s hard.
(15:30:53) UncouthRanting: But if you let YOU control you.. you can make what you want out of anyithing.
(15:31:27) *CENSORED*: I am my own master.
(15:31:38) UncouthRanting: What master?
(15:31:43) UncouthRanting: “I am me.”
(15:31:50) UncouthRanting: Or, perhaps even “I am.”
(15:32:13) *CENSORED*: geez Isaac, I always liked that quote! *thumps you*
(15:32:23) *CENSORED*: you control yourself… or lack of it
(15:33:34) UncouthRanting: Wha?
(15:34:36) *CENSORED*: *smiles slightly* Master is misleading… to me it means teacher, leasher, etc.er all in one
(15:34:43) UncouthRanting: No.
(15:34:44) UncouthRanting: See.
(15:34:58) UncouthRanting: I say “I am.” because everything is implied in the rest of my beliefs.
(15:35:22) UncouthRanting: I don’t NEED to say the rest, because it is inherint in my beliefs that all of that is part of exisitng.
(15:35:58) *CENSORED*: *tilts head* that no one else can be your master?
(15:36:11) UncouthRanting: Everything :}